Love them Where they are

0:00 SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Beautiful Chaos.

0:01 SPEAKER_02: I'm Tammy Ramsey, and today we're talking about something many of us will face at some time in our lives, caring for aging parents and loved ones.

0:11 SPEAKER_02: When my mom's dementia progressed, I spent a lot of time wondering if I was making the right decisions, doing enough, or somehow failing her.

0:21 SPEAKER_02: And what I've learned is that caregiving isn't about controlling every outcome.

0:26 SPEAKER_02: It's about loving people where they are, not where we wish they could be.

0:31 SPEAKER_02: Joining me today is Sarah Bell, registered nurse, who has helped me better understand dementia, caregiving, and the importance of compassion over perfection.

0:42 SPEAKER_02: And if you've ever felt exhausted, guilty, or heartbroken watching someone you love change, this conversation is for you.

1:24 SPEAKER_02: So welcome, Sarah.

1:26 SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Tammy.

1:27 SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for you to be here and to talk to me.

1:32 SPEAKER_02: And I know we just had a little intro practice session.

1:37 SPEAKER_02: And um, this this will come naturally from the heart because I I don't think you realize what an impact you make on people's lives.

1:49 SPEAKER_02: And and I absolutely adore you.

1:52 SPEAKER_02: I love how much compassion you have for people, and I think that you teach that to the rest of us.

2:00 SPEAKER_01: You are so sweet.

2:02 SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.

2:03 SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks.

2:04 SPEAKER_02: So one thing that I feel like that you helped me with with my mom was, you know, when I was transitioning her into assisted living, I was still feeling like I was the parent.

2:19 SPEAKER_02: Like I was in control of the medications, I was in control of her diet, I was in control of somehow I was in control of her health and well-being in the aspect of I had to change everything that she did.

2:35 SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, she's a handful and she had a lot of health issues, and I was thinking that somehow after 79 years, I was going to teach her to eat healthier and make better choices.

2:49 SPEAKER_02: It's too late for that, right?

2:52 SPEAKER_02: So I think that you we've talked about this before and you may not remember, but so how can caregivers kind of let go of that control and let go of their loved ones' responsibility, yet still be responsible for them, but allow them the dignity to make their own choices or even make it seem like their choices, right?

3:18 SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.

3:19 SPEAKER_01: And I that's a very good question, and it's a very compounded question.

3:24 SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's so important to be a representative for your parents' health, be that quality and um just that confidence in, and especially for you.

3:38 SPEAKER_01: One thing that I've been so ad uh I've admired in so much in you is how healthy you are.

3:44 SPEAKER_01: You're uh you are an advocate for health, and being able to um represent that in your uh with your parents, with your children is very important.

3:56 SPEAKER_01: Going into talking about how we help with our aging parents, who don't want to hear any of that, which most of my kids don't want to hear any of it either, most of them.

4:06 SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

4:07 SPEAKER_01: I um that is where where it gets a little hairy.

4:12 SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's going to be different stages, and where you were in that stage of taking care of everything, managing medications, making sure your mom was eating healthy, and uh that her uh you know blood sugars were managed and all of that kind of stuff.

4:31 SPEAKER_01: I that was important while she was um while she was in your care.

4:38 SPEAKER_01: Right.

4:39 SPEAKER_01: But also the other important thing is that you're giving them their dignity, you're giving them their choice.

4:48 SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that that so hard requires a milkshake every now and then, and allowing that blood sugar to spike to 300 with the milkshake, and then maybe encouraging a little bit of exercise to bring that bring that blood sugar down.

5:09 SPEAKER_01: And the important part for me, and then the thing that I always encourage, whether your loved one is at home or in skilled nursing or in assisted living, is loving them where they're at.

5:22 SPEAKER_01: And if that means that your parent wants milkshakes for dinner every night and they're having to take a little bit of extra insulin, that is their choice.

5:33 SPEAKER_01: Because in healthcare, even as a nurse in healthcare, I always encourage my patients to do what's right for their bodies, but also to be to have they have the choice, they have the ability to choose for themselves, and that includes poor choices sometimes.

5:50 SPEAKER_02: Right.

5:51 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can remember the doctor coming in and saying, uh, well, Mrs.

5:55 SPEAKER_02: Pettit, we're gonna have to um, you're gonna have to watch what you eat because your blood sugars are so high, or we're gonna have to adjust your insulin.

6:06 SPEAKER_02: And this was after having several conversations with you that I was finally on that page of she's gonna make her own choices, and there's nothing I can do.

6:18 SPEAKER_02: And if it makes her happy, then why the heck not?

6:22 SPEAKER_02: Right?

6:23 SPEAKER_02: And so I told him, I said, you better just dump that insulin because she's not gonna eat right, like she just doesn't make good choices, and if I were her age, I I wouldn't either.

6:36 SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what I was gonna say.

6:38 SPEAKER_01: So this is something that I I have a lot of conversation about.

6:43 SPEAKER_01: If I live to be 80 years old and I have diabetes and I want a milkshake, you best give me a milkshake.

6:50 SPEAKER_01: Because I have worked really hard to make it to 80 years old.

6:54 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and dang it, I want a milkshake.

6:57 SPEAKER_01: And it might be your last milkshake.

6:59 SPEAKER_01: So and and I just feel like um it health is important, it's very important, and and if it is a priority in your life, that is wonderful, and I think that is absolutely great.

7:15 SPEAKER_01: But it isn't a priority in a lot of lives, and on top of the fact of of making sure that your loved one is happy, your happiness comes from relinquishing control over others.

7:33 SPEAKER_01: I can control me, I can't control my kids, I can't control my mom, I can't control my neighbor.

7:40 SPEAKER_01: So your be your release is is going to come from relinquishing a little bit of control.

7:48 SPEAKER_02: Well, and I can I can tell you it's definitely a huge relief because um I know when when my mom was here and I love my mother to death, um, but I my blood pressure went sky high.

8:03 SPEAKER_02: I was reading hypertension and I'm like just stressed out, and my uh sympathetic system was like all the time, like I just thought, you know, something was chasing and gonna kill me, you know, in my amygdala.

8:15 SPEAKER_02: That's what was going on.

8:17 SPEAKER_02: And so when she went to assisted living, that first two weeks was still felt like that, but you were still coming in every single day and every single day, and so that's another one I I had to give myself permission to just show up like once a week.

8:40 SPEAKER_02: I take her to go to lunch, we go to bingo, and I'll stop in once or twice for a few minutes, and I try not to to do that all the time, and it's not that I don't love my mother, but I have to secure my own peace and my own health, and I can't continually just be there.

9:00 SPEAKER_02: And I found, and I think you told me this once the lessons you learn.

9:06 SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, with me not being there every day, she got more involved, made more friends, um, built better relationships with everybody.

9:21 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

9:21 SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that it just it just turned out way better for her.

9:27 SPEAKER_02: So um, so we kind of touched on uh some of our stuff, but um I I think that uh another thing is I talked to other people that had dealt with their parents that they kept them at home and they were telling me how much pressure it was and how guilty they felt.

9:47 SPEAKER_02: And and people like, I mean, I just was talking to everybody, and it's like, why is it that caregivers automatically feel guilty whenever they have to do what's best for their loved one?

10:00 SPEAKER_02: Like, like my mom going into assisted living was a blessing for her because she's a social person, she loves playing games, that's really good for her memory.

10:13 SPEAKER_02: That's good for memory.

10:14 SPEAKER_02: And I think that um just as a caregiver, you're always like, Well, we gotta keep them at home, we need to take care of them.

10:24 SPEAKER_02: And so, what what causes us to feel that guilt and how can we let go of that?

10:31 SPEAKER_02: Have you dealt with that?

10:33 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

10:35 SPEAKER_01: And guilt, I mean, I feel like ultimately it shouldn't be, but guilt is a part of life, it's a part of decision making, it's a part of hard decisions, yeah.

10:45 SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're you're going to experience a degree of that with any hard decision that you make.

10:53 SPEAKER_01: I just feel like un when you do the your due diligence, you do your research, you you look into the different options like you did.

11:04 SPEAKER_01: You very well studied everything that uh that uh would benefit your mom in in the setting that you were looking at, right?

11:13 SPEAKER_01: Which was assisted living at the time.

11:16 SPEAKER_01: And um I'm sure you shopped around.

11:20 SPEAKER_01: You you looked at multiple different facilities, you looked at whether uh having her close to home was better or whether having her in a a town a little bit bigger might have been better.

11:31 SPEAKER_01: Right.

11:31 SPEAKER_01: And uh you you probably researched uh ratings of the facility and made sure that it was a facility that was well known for good care and uh popular in the community and and supportive of the community.

11:46 SPEAKER_01: So you did your due diligence, you didn't just drop her off on someone's doorstep, right?

11:51 SPEAKER_02: With her suitcase saying, see ya, I wouldn't want to be you.

11:54 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.

11:55 SPEAKER_01: And I think ultimately, I mean, I'm personally dealing with a little bit of this right now.

12:01 SPEAKER_01: I have a younger um family member that I'm I'm trying to decide what is the best option that uh she requires a higher level of care, but I can provide some of that care.

12:16 SPEAKER_01: And she's wanting some more independence, and there's guilt there.

12:21 SPEAKER_01: There's guilt of where where she's at versus where she wants to be, and ultimately um I have to make a decision on what's best for her and what's best for me because I have to be able to take care of myself and my family as well, right?

12:38 SPEAKER_01: And uh help her to uh be as independent as she can where she's at, wherever that is.

12:45 SPEAKER_02: Right.

12:46 SPEAKER_02: And I and I think that is several things in that in that conversation is it's great that that you're able to have a conversation that what is it that this person wants?

12:58 SPEAKER_02: What are they looking for?

12:59 SPEAKER_02: That was similar.

13:00 SPEAKER_02: Like if they want to be more independent and care for themselves more, um, then that's great that you're looking for options like that.

13:11 SPEAKER_02: And to be able to understand, because I think that, and I don't know if this is a woman thing or it's just a caretaker giving type person.

13:20 SPEAKER_02: I'm a people pleaser, so I'm kind of screwed on all levels.

13:24 SPEAKER_01: Um I'm right there with you.

13:26 SPEAKER_01: Right?

13:26 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, see?

13:28 SPEAKER_02: I should have recognized a fellow people pleaser.

13:31 SPEAKER_02: Yes.

13:31 SPEAKER_02: So it's it's um it it is wonderful that you recognize that you also have to take care of yourself because I think that was the false identity I had with my mom living with me for six weeks, because I actually moved her from Delaware to here, and I did investigate, and I even I talked to the um a person that was very much on a day-to-day basis with her in Delaware, that was not family, that was um uh professional, and um helped me to make the decision to move her out here as well.

14:12 SPEAKER_02: But um what I was gonna say was that you know, I was in this false identity of myself that I was strong enough to take care of my mom, not recognizing how severe the needs were and um the the health problems that it would cause me.

14:37 SPEAKER_02: So I'm very proud of you for recognizing and uh that you know you have to look at your your your care as well as their care and you have to balance it all out.

14:48 SPEAKER_02: And that probably comes from years of experience dealing with families.

14:52 SPEAKER_01: Well, and one of the things that you kind of brought up about um taking care of your own needs and taking care of your families, you also have to weigh, you have to look at not not everybody is suited for assisted living or nursing home type type situation.

15:11 SPEAKER_01: Some people need a small smaller community, um, maybe a group home or something that is a little bit smaller, or maybe in your home, that is the quality of life that they they need, and they'll be satisfied being in a home setting.

15:27 SPEAKER_01: But in you in your situation, uh where you were dealing with a very, very um social individual, somebody who very much enjoyed getting out and doing things and being with people, that would not have been the best situation for her or you because you're not able to meet that within your home.

15:48 SPEAKER_01: Right.

15:49 SPEAKER_01: Um I just think it's it that is another part of that investigative process of where you're when you're thinking about an aging family member and aging parent, thinking about their personality and where their personality um would fit well.

16:07 SPEAKER_01: And and you know that and they know that, and having them be a part of that conversation is super important, as uh assuming that they don't have an advanced disease process that would make it um not conducive for them to be a part of that conversation.

16:22 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was very blessed that mom was in the early years and and still does quite well.

16:31 SPEAKER_02: Um there's some there's some things that are happening, but um, but she's doing quite well.

16:37 SPEAKER_02: And and frankly, I believe um in her case, because there are antisocial people, like if my husband, if I were to die and my husband were to outlive me and start losing his mind, he would not do well in a assisted living.

16:57 SPEAKER_01: We're just dragging him down to bingo, man.

16:58 SPEAKER_01: There you go.

17:01 SPEAKER_02: It would be like, no, don't let me be around people.

17:05 SPEAKER_02: If there's a dog, just give me a dog and a room and I'll be okay in a backyard.

17:10 SPEAKER_02: But yeah, some people just aren't cut out for that kind of thing.

17:13 SPEAKER_02: And so yeah.

17:14 SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, and this and this is the hard part of the conversation that comes back to the guilt and the feeling like you're in a difficult situation.

17:22 SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you get stuck between a rock and a hard place because mom or dad isn't that social butterfly, but you can't take care of them in your home.

17:32 SPEAKER_01: And then you do have to make that difficult decision and then just be present as much as you possibly can where you have to place them and know that and and then advocate in the facility because just because you have a family member or a loved one in a in a facility or in assisted living does not mean that person has to be involved in activities, they have that choice.

17:55 SPEAKER_01: And again, that comes back to choice, and being that advocate for your loved one to ensure that they're getting the care that is best for them is is enough.

18:05 SPEAKER_01: You're doing enough.

19:21 SPEAKER_02: Yes.

19:22 SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's one of the things that you told me once too was you know, if you're if you're showing up, if you're you know, being a part of her care in any aspect, it doesn't matter how many hours you're putting in, but that you are involved, then that's enough.

19:40 SPEAKER_01: It's more than what most get.

19:43 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think I think the other important thing is is you know, just because they are somewhere that you know other people are taking care of them or watching over them and you know, protecting them from falling, or you know, being there if they do fall, all of those things, those are very important.

20:00 SPEAKER_02: But it's not like Sia wouldn't you want to be like I said, you're not just dropping them off at the curb, you're still being a part of their lives because that's that connection is is very important to them as well.

20:13 SPEAKER_02: So um I want to know how you feel about well, first off, so do you can you tell me?

20:21 SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna throw throw one at her.

20:23 SPEAKER_01: She's throwing one at me.

20:24 SPEAKER_02: Throwing one at you.

20:25 SPEAKER_02: So I'm making me nervous.

20:27 SPEAKER_02: I always get confused about what is dementia, what is Alzheimer's?

20:31 SPEAKER_02: Like what uh I one is worse than the other, and let's let's just say in symptoms, right?

20:41 SPEAKER_02: Would it be?

20:42 SPEAKER_02: So which what is first?

20:44 SPEAKER_02: Is it Alzheimer's first or dementia first?

20:48 SPEAKER_01: So they don't always go hand in hand.

20:51 SPEAKER_02: Okay.

20:51 SPEAKER_01: Uh you can have dementia, which is uh uh progression of of brain death, basically, um versus Alzheimer's, which is a disease process, and it is a severe um demyelination of the brain matter, basically.

21:11 SPEAKER_01: Um there is Alzheimer's dementia, there's Parkinsonian dementia, there's age-related dementia, and that basically just means how your brain is being affected.

21:23 SPEAKER_01: Is it being affected by Parkinson's?

21:25 SPEAKER_01: Is it being affected by Alzheimer's?

21:27 SPEAKER_01: Is it just an age-related effect?

21:30 SPEAKER_01: So there's not which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

21:33 SPEAKER_00: Right.

21:34 SPEAKER_01: But I will say that dementia generally has the less effect.

21:40 SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not as as severe as Alzheimer's disease.

21:44 SPEAKER_01: And so way back when we were throwing Alzheimer's disease out there, we just were.

21:50 SPEAKER_01: We were like, oh, they have Alzheimer's, mom has Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's, you know, the all the different statements that you would hear.

21:57 SPEAKER_02: I just say Alzheimer's for me right now.

21:59 SPEAKER_02: It's old timers.

22:00 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

22:01 SPEAKER_01: I'm right there with you.

22:02 SPEAKER_01: Um, but generally uh some degree of dementia, vascular dementia is another one.

22:11 SPEAKER_01: There's a medication-related dementia, it's just kind of how whatever it is is affecting your brain.

22:18 SPEAKER_01: And then some of those symptoms, you know, include for obviously forgetfulness, um, some degree of of depression, anxiety that can come with it.

22:31 SPEAKER_01: Um, so I hope I answered your question.

22:35 SPEAKER_01: You did well.

22:36 SPEAKER_02: You did.

22:37 SPEAKER_02: So I still always say uh dementia, and and I want to hit that for a second because I want to know what you feel about speaking to your parent with that, because I'm not one to I guess hide things or I I feel like like when when mom first got diagnosed and um and I think they just said dementia, they actually called it something really long, and but it's basically dementia, but she had gray matter and Whatever.

23:15 SPEAKER_02: So when that first came up, and she would say, I don't know, you know, so and so has dementia and da-da-da-da.

23:23 SPEAKER_02: And I'd go, Well, you do too, you do too, mom.

23:26 SPEAKER_02: It's okay.

23:27 SPEAKER_02: That's just what happens as we age.

23:30 SPEAKER_02: Sometimes things just happen with our brains, and we just can't, we can't help it.

23:35 SPEAKER_02: And then at the first few times I would mention the word, she would be like, Oh, because somewhere we've had this, oh, that's taboo.

23:46 SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's like the worst thing that could ever happen to us.

23:48 SPEAKER_02: And so I felt like, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I felt like if I'm open and just are like, Yeah, well, you have it, but it's gonna be okay.

23:59 SPEAKER_02: Like, you're not gonna remember that you have it 20 minutes from now.

24:05 SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna remember, you know, that anything's wrong with you, and that's okay.

24:13 SPEAKER_02: Like this, this is just a word, and it means nothing.

24:18 SPEAKER_02: Where you are, and what you're doing with your life is where you are.

24:23 SPEAKER_02: And if you can't remember what you ordered five minutes ago, I got you.

24:27 SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, like, I try to not make it like it's a big deal, like it's not taboo.

24:32 SPEAKER_02: It just is because nowadays there are a lot of people with dementia.

24:39 SPEAKER_01: And with our older population, it is taboo because we're we're kind of coming into this new age where we're very open about everything.

24:47 SPEAKER_01: And that's wonderful.

24:49 SPEAKER_01: I think it's wonderful to be able to be accepting and be accepted where you're at.

24:55 SPEAKER_01: Our parents maybe aren't necessarily running on that same pathway as us yet.

25:02 SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

25:02 SPEAKER_01: And so we can deal with a little bit of reticence from them.

25:06 SPEAKER_01: It's really important.

25:07 SPEAKER_01: I want to just clarify um just for everybody, a lot of it is a misconception that dementia is a normal part of aging.

25:17 SPEAKER_01: I will say that it is a disease process as well.

25:21 SPEAKER_01: It's not just um forgetfulness is a normal part of aging, but the actual disease process of dementia is extra.

25:28 SPEAKER_01: So I don't want you to think that um as we age, we automatically get dementia.

25:36 SPEAKER_01: And there is there is a ton of stuff out there about how to prevent uh dementia and Alzheimer's disease, and I encourage anybody to look into that.

25:45 SPEAKER_01: Going back to your question, I just wanted to clarify.

25:48 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, going back to your question, I I agree with you in the sense of of being very open in the beginning stages.

25:57 SPEAKER_01: I 100% think that uh very first time of diagnosis, mom be the doctor scalywagging around, whatever it is going on, is very common because they don't want to upset anybody.

26:12 SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, when we get down to it, mom really needs to know, right?

26:16 SPEAKER_01: Mom or dad.

26:17 SPEAKER_01: Uh really need to know right up at the at the get-go.

26:20 SPEAKER_01: And then having those conversations about being accepting of your of your disease process uh is very, very important.

26:28 SPEAKER_01: Later on down the road, or if you're dealing with an advanced disease process, because there is sometimes um, you know, Lewy body dementia and different disease, uh, different diseases hit hard and they hit fast and and the progression is quick.

26:46 SPEAKER_01: And so there is a time where we do need to meet them where they're at.

26:52 SPEAKER_01: And sometimes where they're at isn't reminding them that they have dementia.

26:57 SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it is letting them know that their mom will be by to visit them later because that's what they expect.

27:07 SPEAKER_01: And they're not gonna remember that mom is in heaven, they're going to think that they are going to come, but they're also not going to remember that you are technically fibbing.

27:18 SPEAKER_01: Um I just I I they call it a therapeutic fib, and it is a thing, and it is there is a healthy balance between um between being open and honest, and there are times where that is important, and then also living in their reality and and not being like, mom, you know who I am, I I'm your daughter, you know, or just being like, oh, it's good to see you today.

27:48 SPEAKER_01: And so it does depend on the level of of where they're at.

27:53 SPEAKER_02: Right.

27:53 SPEAKER_02: I'm still in the early, but I and and I do want to say, I wasn't, I wasn't insinuating that it is normal.

28:01 SPEAKER_02: I try to just make it normal for my mom because it is a normal thing for her because she has this disease.

28:11 SPEAKER_02: But um shout out for carnivore diet, because that's what I do.

28:16 SPEAKER_02: That's one way to to kind of secure some some safety of your brain and to feed it ketotones to also also uh you can disagree with me, but I'm also on the don't take a statin.

28:31 SPEAKER_02: Um there has been a lot of scientific research that shows that statins, which lower cholesterol, actually can cause dementia.

28:39 SPEAKER_02: And our brains need to function on cholesterol.

28:42 SPEAKER_02: So that really kind of blew my mind.

28:45 SPEAKER_02: Um, and that our bodies create cholesterol because um of some hormonal issues and thyroid issues.

28:53 SPEAKER_02: If your thyroid's not under control, then your body starts overproducing on a lot of things.

28:58 SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, you are digress.

29:00 SPEAKER_01: You have she has done so much research, and I I will not even begin to disagree because I have not done the research myself, and so but I I love um I love what you shared about um because I know I'm going to be there.

29:19 SPEAKER_02: And I did have my mom's best friend lives in Virginia and she took care of an aunt who had dementia, and she said she would walk out of there and she heard this fella say, Um, all right, dad, we're gonna go now.

29:31 SPEAKER_02: We're gonna all go home and have family dinner.

29:33 SPEAKER_02: We'll see you later.

29:34 SPEAKER_02: And then the dad was like, Well, hey, I want to go.

29:36 SPEAKER_02: And they were like, Oh no, you can't go.

29:39 SPEAKER_02: And my my mom's friend said, you know what?

29:42 SPEAKER_02: Why didn't he they they didn't just lie to him and say, we're just gonna go home and do nothing?

29:49 SPEAKER_02: Because then here they got his hopes up, got him excited that he wanted to do something and they couldn't take him.

29:58 SPEAKER_02: And so I get that it's a sometimes you have to healthy fib and you have to like you just have to give them what they need, and like you said, don't don't argue with them and fight with them.

30:16 SPEAKER_02: This is a great moment of recognizing that your ego needs to check out of this situation because yeah, you absolutely 100% need to just be like, uh, yes, this is not James, this is Cody.

30:35 SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, mom, this is Cody.

30:37 SPEAKER_02: You know, like whatever.

30:39 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm I'm your mother, whatever.

30:41 SPEAKER_02: A lot of times she flips our our role and will call me mom, and I'm like, Yep, okay.

30:47 SPEAKER_01: And and you don't have to dive into it and just go into this great long story that can create some more confusion, right?

30:55 SPEAKER_01: But just kind of going with the flow and making sure they understand that you're not um creating a contentious environment.

31:02 SPEAKER_01: Uh the ego comment is very, very real, and I think that's it just in general, and every anything we do, our egos just need to hit the window.

31:11 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.

31:12 SPEAKER_01: That will solve a lot of world peace for sure.

31:17 SPEAKER_02: So um what kind of things do people look for um in cognitive decline, like depression, anxiety, grief, or um loneliness?

31:35 SPEAKER_02: Like I I feel like that um well an incident happened that uh someone I know was um has a a little stuffed animal and they wrap it up at night and put it to bed.

31:54 SPEAKER_02: And I'm like thinking that's a self-soothing behavior, and that's a uh I'm feeling alone in the evening, and so that's my way of nurturing, and that's my way of connecting with something.

32:14 SPEAKER_02: Is that is that a normal not I'm not gonna say normal.

32:19 SPEAKER_02: Normal is not the right word to use at all in any of this conversation.

32:24 SPEAKER_02: But is that a is that a sign that families should pay attention attention to if their parents having cognitive decline?

32:33 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

32:34 SPEAKER_01: And you know, as far uh we usually see some of that kind of caretaking, especially where um uh inanimate objects becoming real is a little bit more advanced than just kind of that beginning stage most of the time.

32:52 SPEAKER_01: I think that uh in the in the beginning or even in the latter stages, what we really need to focus on is safety.

33:01 SPEAKER_01: Safety is primary.

33:03 SPEAKER_01: Um mom can not remember who your children are and still be doing well in the kitchen.

33:11 SPEAKER_02: Right.

33:12 SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, sometimes that's not the case.

33:15 SPEAKER_01: Um mom can be forgetting to leave the stove on and being able to drive to Walmart and do her shopping every day.

33:21 SPEAKER_01: So we have to look at safety first and as and uh one of the ways of doing that is is checking to make sure the stoves stoves are left on.

33:34 SPEAKER_01: That's kind of my my first and foremost that I I think about because fires are so scary.

33:40 SPEAKER_01: Uh the other thing I look at is medication management.

33:43 SPEAKER_01: Is mom taking her medications appropriately?

33:46 SPEAKER_01: Uh are they is there a system that mom's used forever and she has a bucket with all of her medications in it, and you come and her medications are scattered all over the kitchen counter or the living room, or she doesn't even know where half of her medications are.

34:02 SPEAKER_01: That is a that is a significant warning sign uh with the medications specifically.

34:09 SPEAKER_01: Uh if she starts asking questions about why, and I keep saying mom, it's mom or dad, it's mom or dad, or aunt or uncle or any loved one you're caring for that may be going through this process.

34:22 SPEAKER_01: But um with that, if there if there are questions, because a lot of times we know ourselves when we are declining in one way or another, and there will be some reticence on certain certain things.

34:37 SPEAKER_01: Maybe your loved one is asking help with grocery shopping or asking for help.

34:43 SPEAKER_01: Maybe sh they want you to get a medminder and help them set up their medications.

34:48 SPEAKER_01: Those are just some signs that maybe we're looking at a little bit of uh a change in condition.

34:57 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that um sometimes um denial happens within us for what's happening with our parents.

35:06 SPEAKER_02: We see these some of these signs, but we just push it off on.

35:10 SPEAKER_02: Well, I've I've left the stove on before.

35:12 SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've remembered it like 10 minutes later.

35:15 SPEAKER_02: Yep.

35:15 SPEAKER_02: Or um, you know, I can't remember where I put my keys and I just did that five minutes ago, or oh my gosh.

35:22 SPEAKER_02: Like those things.

35:23 SPEAKER_02: Oh, today I'm like, oh, I've got to put Brussels sprouts on the list of um uh vegetables.

35:29 SPEAKER_02: I eat Brussels sprouts every now and again.

35:31 SPEAKER_02: And my husband's like, You have a whole drawer full of Brussels sprouts.

35:34 SPEAKER_02: So I think that when you start looking at things that you forget, and then you're like, but you know, maybe my mom's just forgetting things.

35:44 SPEAKER_02: And and I think that there's this part of you that doesn't want to recognize what's happening because you're scared that that's you.

35:52 SPEAKER_02: Like, like maybe you're you're already there and you're in denial, but I don't believe, hey, I might be at the beginning of this ordeal.

36:07 SPEAKER_02: I think I think that mine is just at at certain ages and certain seasons of our lives, we're so busy and we have so many irons in the fire that our brains are overloaded and we can't we can't remember everything.

36:21 SPEAKER_02: So there's that difference, and I think we have to recognize that in ourselves and in our parents, and understand that parents or whoever our aging person is that we're looking after or or paying attention to, you know it, it the signs are very prominent, especially when it comes to medications, I think.

36:42 SPEAKER_02: And somebody once told me there's a difference between misplacing your keys and putting your keys in the refrigerator and your milk on in a drawer.

36:54 SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?

36:55 SPEAKER_02: Like that's like there's something going on that's that's more um something more to worry about.

37:04 SPEAKER_02: Yes, progressive.

37:05 SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to mention what you know, I find myself in a situation that many of your viewers might also be in where I'm still raising kids.

37:16 SPEAKER_01: I I still have teenagers at home, and that is a very stressful time, and then I also find myself in a situation where I'm also taking care of an aging parent, and where we're dealing with this generation gap.

37:27 SPEAKER_01: The boomers are very large generation, and uh statistically didn't take care of themselves as well as the previous generation, and so they're sicker sooner.

37:40 SPEAKER_01: Yes, and so then our responsibility as children of boomer parents is also becoming a little bit more extensive while we're still taking care of our children.

37:54 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

37:54 SPEAKER_01: I never know where my keys are, I never know where my phone is.

37:58 SPEAKER_01: I I am a scatterhead 97% of the time.

38:03 SPEAKER_01: I do not have dementia yet.

38:05 SPEAKER_01: No, I'm gonna get on the carnivore diet.

38:07 SPEAKER_01: There you go.

38:08 SPEAKER_01: Do it, do it, but I want to clarify that denial is a process and a part of grief.

38:18 SPEAKER_01: And you can you can be in denial because you're afraid it's yourself, but or you're you're recognizing some symptoms that you're concerned about from your own life, but you can also be in denial because you're grieving the loss of your parent of your parent.

38:34 SPEAKER_01: You're grieving the loss of that that role that was there for so long, and just you need to know that that is normal.

38:43 SPEAKER_01: Denial is an appropriate part of grief, but we can't ignore safety.

38:49 SPEAKER_01: We can't ignore safety, and so when we start seeing things, and sometimes we might miss a few things, but we start seeing things coming up that are safety concerns, that's when we might need to take that next step.

39:03 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

39:04 SPEAKER_02: And gosh, I just I so appreciate you because you're you're just so wise, you've had so much experience in all of this.

39:12 SPEAKER_02: You seem so wise.

39:13 SPEAKER_02: She's probably hanging on by a thread.

39:15 SPEAKER_02: Like we all are.

39:16 SPEAKER_02: It's a roller coaster ride.

39:17 SPEAKER_02: What that's what this podcast is all about.

39:19 SPEAKER_02: We're just on a roller coaster, all of us.

39:22 SPEAKER_02: And some days it's the you're building up, and then other days it's the going down, and you got no control over any of it, and it's and it's okay.

39:32 SPEAKER_02: But I love that you talk about that the denial thing because I think that's that's huge.

39:39 SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of we could do a whole nother episode, and maybe we will, because I also struggled with the change in personality and this um epiphany that um things that I thought were important to my mom were not important, and I went through this time of wow, maybe my childhood wasn't what I thought it was.

40:10 SPEAKER_02: I started questioning everything about our relationship from younger years because of her current behavior and and some things that she would say.

40:25 SPEAKER_02: And it took me quite a while to come to the conclusion that you know, my memories of my childhood were accurate, and I was very loved, and my mom's my best friend, and my mom did love me, and um, everything she did in life was because of her love for me, and and then it all kind of came around, and because of letting go, because of having more compassion, and I'm a very compassionate person, but I I for some reason it wasn't quite all the way there with mom.

41:04 SPEAKER_02: It was more of a kept getting slapped in the face with like, I don't understand what's happening, and this isn't the person I knew.

41:11 SPEAKER_02: Where's you know, where's this coming from?

41:13 SPEAKER_02: To now, you know, now that she's secure, she's in a routine of her own, just like our children and like we need, we we all love routines, whether you think you do or not.

41:26 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's in a safe, secure environment, and her well-being is taken care of, and she's back to more of the person she was.

41:37 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and it helped heal my relationship uh with her through this.

41:45 SPEAKER_02: And we had a great relationship, but with this decline, it would just really was like the rug was pulled out from under me a few times.

41:52 SPEAKER_01: And well, and think about all the transitions that she went through.

41:57 SPEAKER_01: And that's another thing that you've you've gotta understand.

42:00 SPEAKER_01: I'm going through a great transition right now.

42:02 SPEAKER_01: I have a teenager who just graduated high school, and he's had he's heading out on his own, and he's so scared.

42:11 SPEAKER_01: And that's a transition, that's a very stressful.

42:14 SPEAKER_01: I picked up beading.

42:16 SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I have time to bead, but evidently I do because I'm so stressed and it's something I can control.

42:23 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so I'm taking that back to your your mom and her situation.

42:29 SPEAKER_01: She went from you said Delaware, she was living in Delaware independently, she had a little bit of she had a little bit of a three-bedroom house to a 900 square foot apartment.

42:39 SPEAKER_01: Well, and then moving in with you and being taken care of by our daughter that she take took care of for for 20 years or longer, maybe.

42:46 SPEAKER_01: I don't know.

42:47 SPEAKER_02: Which she never wanted to be a burden on ever to anyone.

42:51 SPEAKER_01: And and and then also the progress and the the transition of normal healthy brain to dementia-affected brain and chronic disease process, and so you have to look at at all of these transitions that we're all going through.

43:06 SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm a big proponent of nobody is perfect.

43:11 SPEAKER_01: Nobody, nobody is perfect.

43:13 SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna give grace to the person who cuts me off on the street, I'm gonna give grace to my teenager who frustrates me, I'm gonna give grace to my mom who is dealing with her own stuff she's dealing with.

43:25 SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give grace to everybody because I know that I'm transitioning.

43:30 SPEAKER_01: I don't know what they're transitioning, I don't know what their transitions look like, but I know that mine are super stressful.

43:36 SPEAKER_01: And so Yeah.

43:39 SPEAKER_01: And the last part of that is I'm also gonna give myself grace when I screw up, when I yell at somebody, when I get frustrated, when I maybe respond inappropriately to my mom or to my my teenager, because uh we're all just imperfect people in an imperfect world trying to get along and make things work.

44:00 SPEAKER_02: And it's our first time doing each of these things.

44:05 SPEAKER_02: I mean, it really is.

44:07 SPEAKER_02: It's it's this is our first life.

44:10 SPEAKER_02: This is our first time going through all of the things that we go through.

44:14 SPEAKER_02: And so for sure, we need to give ourselves grace and compassion.

44:19 SPEAKER_02: And I I appreciate you so much for for all your compassion.

44:24 SPEAKER_02: You are like the sweetest person I know, and I'm so grateful to know you.

44:30 SPEAKER_02: So thank you for joining us.

44:32 SPEAKER_02: And if you guys have any questions or comments, um please Facebook messages us or we're on Instagram, you can go to beautiful chaos1 at buzzsprout.com and become a fan.

44:50 SPEAKER_02: And you can also email us there.

44:52 SPEAKER_02: And if you have someone that's dealing with taking care of a parent and they're guilting themselves and they're struggling, please share this episode.

45:00 SPEAKER_02: Or if it's uh someone in your family and you're trying to share the load of taking care of a parent, share this with them because everything you're going through is not easy, it's just I don't know, somebody said we're not life, isn't a journey because that sounds so fun or easy.

45:25 SPEAKER_02: Life is constant change, and we just have to learn that it's like the ocean, and we can't stop the waves, but we can get a surfboard and ride them and choose to decide to enjoy the ride.

45:46 SPEAKER_02: There you go.

45:47 SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.

45:48 SPEAKER_02: Okay, thanks again, and uh everyone stay empowered.